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Post by conover on Feb 26, 2005 14:05:51 GMT -5
Henry Runyan (Runyon) built a cabin before 1792 in southwestern Ohio, now Hamilton County, and possibly now Village of Evendale, between Reading and Sharonville. This may also have been the site of Runyan's Station, a wilderness stockade. He married Abigail Lynch, date not yet found. We know of one daughter born 28 Aug 1805.
In Hamilton County historical records he is listed as being from Virginia.
We would appreciate any information that might define his ancestry.
Signed, Conover
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Post by Ira A. Runyan on Feb 26, 2005 14:29:43 GMT -5
Hope this helps.[/color]
Descendants of Abigail Lynch
Generation No. 1
1. ABIGAIL1 LYNCH1 was born 05 Nov 1775 in Shenandoah Valley, VA, and died 1826 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH. She married HENRY RUNYAN1 21 Nov 1796 in Harrison County, VA, son of WILLIAM RUNYAN and CATHERINE CUSTER. He was born 1775 in Monongalia County, VA, and died 17 Jun 1858 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH.
More About HENRY RUNYAN and ABIGAIL LYNCH:
Marriage: 21 Nov 1796, Harrison County, VA
Children of ABIGAIL LYNCH and HENRY RUNYAN are:
i. MARY2 RUNYAN, b. 15 Jun 1799, Harrison County, VA; d. 24 Jul 1854, Warren County, OH; m. HENRY SNELL, 04 Feb 1819; b. 12 Apr 1792; d. 28 Oct 1876.
More About HENRY SNELL and MARY RUNYAN:
Marriage: 04 Feb 1819
ii. PETER LYNCH RUNYAN, b. 28 Nov 1801, Harrison County, VA; d. 05 Sep 1875, Warren County, OH.
iii. WILLIAM LYNCH RUNYAN, b. 28 Nov 1801, Harrison County, VA; d. 17 Nov 1885, Clermont County, OH.
2. iv. JAMES RUNYAN, b. 28 Dec 1803, Monongalia, Harrison County, VA; d. 17 Jul 1900, Brown County, OH.
v. HESTER RUNYAN, b. 28 Aug 1805, Warren County, OH; d. 02 Dec 1879, Clermont County, OH.
vi. ABRAM RUNYAN, b. Aug 1807, Warren County, OH.
vii. EILAS L. RUNYAN, b. 14 Apr 1809, Warren County, OH.
viii. TELITHA H. RUNYAN, b. Aug 1811, Warren County, OH.
ix. HIRAM L. RUNYAN, b. 18 Aug 1815, Warren County, OH; d. 1892, Warren County, OH.
x. JANE RUNYAN, b. Aug 1817, Warren County, OH.
Generation No. 2
2. JAMES2 RUNYAN (ABIGAIL1 LYNCH)1 was born 28 Dec 1803 in Monongalia, Harrison County, VA, and died 17 Jul 1900 in Brown County, OH. He married LAURA STILES 16 Apr 1835 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH. She was born 08 Nov 1819 in Vermont, and died 14 Dec 1889 in Brown County, OH.
More About JAMES RUNYAN and LAURA STILES:
Marriage: 16 Apr 1835, Butlerville, Warren County, OH
Children of JAMES RUNYAN and LAURA STILES are:
i. ABIGAIL3 RUNYAN1, b. 1836, Butlerville, Warren County, OH.
3. ii. HENRY RUNYAN, b. Oct 1839, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 1924, Brown County, OH.
iii. TELITHA RUNYAN1, b. 1841, Butlerville, Warren County, OH.
iv. GEORGE W. RUNYAN1, b. 26 Aug 1844, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 15 Nov 1866, Brown County, OH.
4. v. HIRAM L. RUNYAN, b. 09 Oct 1846, Warren County, OH; d. 04 Oct 1935, Ohio.
vi. JAMES RUNYAN1, b. 1850, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 1936, Brown County, OH; m. HARRIET A. HARBAUGH, 26 Jul 1874, Clermont County, OH; b. 1846; d. 1927.
More About JAMES RUNYAN and HARRIET HARBAUGH:
Marriage: 26 Jul 1874, Clermont County, OH
vii. WILLIAM RUNYAN1, b. 1852, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 1917.
viii. PETER L. RUNYAN1, b. Dec 1854, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 1942.
ix. HARRIET RUNYAN1, b. Jan 1857, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 1921; m. GEORGE SCHILLING.
x. SARAH OLIVE RUNYAN1, b. 1860, Montgomery County, VA.
Generation No. 3
3. HENRY3 RUNYAN (JAMES2, ABIGAIL1 LYNCH)1 was born Oct 1839 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH, and died 1924 in Brown County, OH. He married NANCY M.. She was born 1840, and died 1909 in Brown County, OH.
Children of HENRY RUNYAN and NANCY M. are:
i. WALTER4 RUNYAN, b. Abt. 1865.
ii. ALVIN RUNYAN, b. Abt. 1867.
4. HIRAM L.3 RUNYAN (JAMES2, ABIGAIL1 LYNCH)1 was born 09 Oct 1846 in Warren County, OH, and died 04 Oct 1935 in Ohio. He married RACHEL MARRIA LONG 14 Oct 1868 in Brown County, OH. She was born 18 Nov 1850 in Ohio, and died 01 Jul 1923 in Ohio.
More About HIRAM RUNYAN and RACHEL LONG:
Marriage: 14 Oct 1868, Brown County, OH
Children of HIRAM RUNYAN and RACHEL LONG are:
5. i. CHARLES K.4 RUNYAN, b. 16 Sep 1869, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 12 Jun 1910, Ohio.
ii. FRANK JOSEPH RUNYAN1, b. 04 Jan 1872, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; m. GERTRUDE CHILD.
6. iii. OTIS A. RUNYAN, b. 02 Jul 1874, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 06 Aug 1956, Ohio.
7. iv. WILLIAM THOMAS RUNYAN, b. 06 Feb 1877, Butlerville, Warren County, OH; d. 06 Aug 1959, Columbus, OH.
Generation No. 4
5. CHARLES K.4 RUNYAN (HIRAM L.3, JAMES2, ABIGAIL1 LYNCH)1 was born 16 Sep 1869 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH, and died 12 Jun 1910 in Ohio. He married GEORGIA DAVIDSON. She was born 24 Jun 1875.
Child of CHARLES RUNYAN and GEORGIA DAVIDSON is:
i. ALMA5 RUNYAN1, b. 05 Feb 1895.
6. OTIS A.4 RUNYAN (HIRAM L.3, JAMES2, ABIGAIL1 LYNCH)1 was born 02 Jul 1874 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH, and died 06 Aug 1956 in Ohio. He married JENNIE F. CHILD.
Child of OTIS RUNYAN and JENNIE CHILD is:
i. HAZEL5 RUNYAN1, b. 11 Jun 1899.
7. WILLIAM THOMAS4 RUNYAN (HIRAM L.3, JAMES2, ABIGAIL1 LYNCH)1 was born 06 Feb 1877 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH, and died 06 Aug 1959 in Columbus, OH. He married STELLA HULL 18 Nov 1905 in Montgomery County, VA. She was born 18 Jan 1882 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH.
More About WILLIAM RUNYAN and STELLA HULL:
Marriage: 18 Nov 1905, Montgomery County, VA
Children of WILLIAM RUNYAN and STELLA HULL are:
i. HAROLD WILLIAM5 RUNYAN1, b. 09 Sep 1906, Hazelwood, Hamilton County, OH; d. 18 Dec 1994, Brooksville, Hernando County, FL; m. GLADYS IRENE DISKETE; b. 15 Nov 1911, Buford, Clermont County, OH; d. 29 Jun 1994, Lynchburg, Highland County, OH.
ii. MILDRED RACHEL RUNYAN1, b. 04 Feb 1913, Hazelwood, Hamilton County, OH; d. 29 Dec 2002, Brooksville, Hernando County, FL.
Endnotes
1. Susan Runyan ( susanrunyan@earthlink.net ), "Electronic."
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Post by Ira A. Runyan on Feb 26, 2005 14:57:40 GMT -5
Ancestors of Henry Runyan[/color]
Generation No. 1
1. Henry Runyan, born 1775 in Monongalia County, VA; died 17 Jun 1858 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH. He was the son of 2. William Runyan and 3. Catherine Custer. He married (1) Abigail Lynch 21 Nov 1796 in Harrison County, VA. She was born 05 Nov 1775 in Shenandoah Valley, VA, and died 1826 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH.
Generation No. 2
2. William Runyan, born 1751 in NJ; died 1833 in Salem Twp, Warren County, Ohio. He was the son of 4. John Runyan. He married 3. Catherine Custer in Harrison County, VA.
3. Catherine Custer, born 1747; died 1826 in Warren County, OH.
Children of William Runyan and Catherine Custer are:
i. Isaac Newton Runyan, born 26 Mar 1773 in Harrison County, VA; died 20 Mar 1859 in Warren County, OH; married (1) Nancy Ann Little; died 04 Feb 1867 in Warren County, OH; married (2) Mary Elsworth 10 Nov 1796 in Harrison County, VA.
1 ii. Henry Runyan, born 1775 in Monongalia County, VA; died 17 Jun 1858 in Butlerville, Warren County, OH; married Abigail Lynch 21 Nov 1796 in Harrison County, VA.
iii. Elizabeth Runyan, born 1780 in Monongalia County, VA; died 28 Feb 1849 in Warren County, OH; married William Bennett 29 Sep 1799 in Harrison County, VA; born 1779; died 21 Jan 1864 in Warren County, OH.
iv. William Runyan, born 1779 in Monongalia County, VA; married Hannah Sine 15 Aug 1803 in Harrison County, VA.
v. Susannah Runyan, born 1781; married John Little 08 Apr 1816 in Warren County, Ohio.
vi. Jane Runyan, born 1785.
vii. Benjamin Runyan, born 1787 in Harrison County, VA; died Jun 1849.
viii. John Runyan, born 1789 in Harrison County, VA; married Catherine Williams 23 Feb 1808 in Warren County, Ohio.
ix. David Runyan, born 07 Mar 1793 in Harrison County, VA; died 11 Dec 1860 in Delphos, Ohio; married Elizabeth Layman 21 Jun 1814 in Warren County, Ohio; born 24 Dec 1790; died 19 Aug 1827.
x. Sarah Runyan, born 1802 in Harrison County, VA.
Generation No. 3
4. John Runyan, born 1725. He was the son of 8. Vincent Runyan and 9. Mercy Bonham Smith.
Children of John Runyan are:
i. John Runyan, born 04 Apr 1747 in NJ; died 07 Dec 1807 in Clarksburg, Virginia.
ii. Henry Runyan, born 1749; died 1814.
2 iii. William Runyan, born 1751 in NJ; died 1833 in Salem Twp, Warren County, Ohio; married Catherine Custer in Harrison County, VA.
iv. Elijah Runyan, born 11 Jul 1757 in Sheandoah County, VA; died Abt. 1830 in Mason County, VA; married Katherine.
Generation No. 4
8. Vincent Runyan, born Abt. 1701 in New Jersey; died Abt. 1771 in New Jersey. He was the son of 16. Thomas Runyan and 17. Martha Dunn. He married 9. Mercy Bonham Smith Abt. 1745.
9. Mercy Bonham Smith, born Abt. 1726; died 05 Aug 1797. She was the daughter of 18. Nehemiah Bonham and 19. Ann Stout.
Children of Vincent Runyan and Mercy Smith are:
i. Absalom R. Runyan
ii. Bonham Runyan
iii. Vincent Runyan II, died 1771; married Eleanor Hunt; born 1751; died 08 Jan 1815.
4 iv. John Runyan, born 1725.
Generation No. 5
16. Thomas Runyan, born 1675 in Piscataway, New Jersey; died Apr 1753 in Hopewell, New Jersey. He was the son of 32. Vincent Rongnion and 33. Ann Martha Boutcher. He married 17. Martha Dunn Abt. 1698.
17. Martha Dunn, born 13 Jul 1681; died Bef. 1749. She was the daughter of 34. Hugh Dunn Sr. and 35. Elizabeth Drake.
Children of Thomas Runyan and Martha Dunn are:
i. Catherine Runyan, born Abt. 1700 in New Jersey; married Cornelius Anderson.
8 ii. Vincent Runyan, born Abt. 1701 in New Jersey; died Abt. 1771 in New Jersey; married (1) Alise Curtis Abt. 1720; married (2) Mercy Bonham Smith Abt. 1745.
iii. Thomas Runyan, Jr., born Abt. 1702 in Hopewell, New Jersey; died 1770 in New Jersey; married Elizabeth ?; died Abt. 1765.
iv. Joseph Runyan, born Abt. 1704 in Piscatawaay, Middlesex, NJ; married Elizabeth ?.
v. Martha Runyan, born Jun 1705 in New Jersey; married Hezekiah Bonham, Jr.; born Abt. 1701.
vi. Aaron Runyan, born Abt. 1709 in New Jersey; died Bet. 1790 - 1794 in New Jersey; married Sarah Stout(?).
vii. Ephraim Runyan, born Abt. 1710 in New Jersey; died 1772; married Sarah Houghton; died 1789.
viii. Benjamin Runyan, born Abt. 1717.
ix. John Runyan, born 1739 in Somerset (Amwell), NJ; died 27 Jul 1813; married (1) Rachel Hyde 1769; born 11 Jan 1741 in Hopewell, NJ; died Jun 1814; married (2) Rebecca Landis 19 Jun 1793.
18. Nehemiah Bonham He married 19. Ann Stout.
19. Ann Stout
Child of Nehemiah Bonham and Ann Stout is:
9 i. Mercy Bonham Smith, born Abt. 1726; died 05 Aug 1797; married Vincent Runyan Abt. 1745.
Generation No. 6
32. Vincent Rongnion, born 1645 in Poitou, France; died Nov 1713 in Piscataway, New Jersey. He married 33. Ann Martha Boutcher 17 Jul 1668 in New Jersey.
33. Ann Martha Boutcher, born Abt. 1650; died Abt. 1723. She was the daughter of 66. John Boutcher.
Children of Vincent Rongnion and Ann Boutcher are:
i. John Vincent Runyon, born 14 Feb 1669 in Elizabethtown, New Jersey; died Bef. Nov 1744 in Rocky Hill, Somerset County, New Jersey; married Ann Elizabeth Dunn 20 Jul 1692 in Piscaraway, Middlesex County, NJ; born 19 May 1675 in Hunterdon County, NJ; died 1756 in Rocky Hill, Somerset County, New Jersey.
ii. Vincent Runyon, born 1671 in Piscataway, New Jersey; died Mar 1724 in Middlesex County, New Jersey; married Mary Hull 02 Dec 1691; born 10 Aug 1670; died 02 Feb 1757.
iii. Ann Runyon, born 1673; married Nathaniel Leonard.
16 iv. Thomas Runyan, born 1675 in Piscataway, New Jersey; died Apr 1753 in Hopewell, New Jersey; married Martha Dunn Abt. 1698.
v. Mary Runyon, born 02 Jul 1677; died Abt. 1745; married Benjamin Drake; born 1683; died 1763.
vi. Peter Runyon, born 01 Jul 1680 in Piscataway, New Jersey; died Oct 1753 in Piscataway, New Jersey; married Providence Blackford 12 Oct 1704; born 1683; died 1759.
vii. Jane Runyon, born 19 Jan 1683.
viii. Sarah Runyon, born 30 Oct 1686 in Piscataway, New Jersey; died 28 Feb 1732 in Piscataway, New Jersey; married Richard Sutton 25 Jan 1702 in Piscataway, New Jersey; born 18 Jul 1676.
34. Hugh Dunn Sr. He married 35. Elizabeth Drake.
35. Elizabeth Drake
Child of Hugh Sr. and Elizabeth Drake is:
17 i. Martha Dunn, born 13 Jul 1681; died Bef. 1749; married Thomas Runyan Abt. 1698.
Generation No. 7
66. John Boutcher
Child of John Boutcher is:
33 i. Ann Martha Boutcher, born Abt. 1650; died Abt. 1723; married Vincent Rongnion 17 Jul 1668 in New Jersey.
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Post by Susan Runyan on Feb 27, 2005 10:27:30 GMT -5
My husband and I live in Sharonville and know of the Runyan connection. They have a small historical society and they are interested in the Runyons. There was, and may still be, a Runyon Cemetery in Sharonville and we were often asked if we were related. Not knowing much about the family then, my husband always said no.
His family line is from Henry and Abigail's son James bn 1803.
We won't be back to Cincinnati until the spring, I'll start digging around then.
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Post by susan runyan on Mar 3, 2005 10:43:45 GMT -5
On Runyontidbits.com I saw this"
Information about the Ohio Runyon/Runyan families interested a person who signed his name M.E.S.S. in the 27 October 1926 The Boston Transcripts. The message was in response to a query asking about a Joseph Runyon who married Nancy Ogden, 10 September 1835. M.E.S.S. responded that the Ogdens removed from Fairfield Township, New Jersey to Cleves, Ohio, about 1816. The writer goes on to say that a history of Hamilton, Ohio, stated “that Runyan’s Station was established in 1792, that J.M. Runyan was made postmaster of Cleves under the Presidency of General Harrison, that Runyan, a New Jersey recruit, was killed in an action with Indians, and that Cleves town was founded in 1818.” Source: The Boston Transcripts have copies of a column of genealogy that published queries and answers.
I thought u might be interested in the info on Runyan's Station.
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Post by Ira A. Runyan on Mar 3, 2005 11:25:09 GMT -5
On Runyontidbits.com I saw this" Information about the Ohio Runyon/Runyan families interested a person who signed his name M.E.S.S. in the 27 October 1926 The Boston Transcripts. The message was in response to a query asking about a Joseph Runyon who married Nancy Ogden, 10 September 1835. M.E.S.S. responded that the Ogdens removed from Fairfield Township, New Jersey to Cleves, Ohio, about 1816. The writer goes on to say that a history of Hamilton, Ohio, stated “that Runyan’s Station was established in 1792, that J.M. Runyan was made postmaster of Cleves under the Presidency of General Harrison, that Runyan, a New Jersey recruit, was killed in an action with Indians, and that Cleves town was founded in 1818.” Source: The Boston Transcripts have copies of a column of genealogy that published queries and answers. I thought u might be interested in the info on Runyan's Station. RUNYAN's station, also of 1792, on section nineteen, Sycamore township, about a mile and a half north of Sharonville, and near the present county line. This was the outpost in that direction. Source: History of Hamilton County Ohio (published 1881) Chapter VIII Read more at: ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/oh/hamilton/history/1881/pg056.txt |
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Post by susanrunyan on Jun 4, 2005 23:06:15 GMT -5
I went to the old Runyan cemetery today in Sharonville, Hamilton County, Oh......there are a few standing grave stones, most are hard to read....One was Isaac Runyan -died 3/3/1822 - 89y-1m-29d.......which would put his birth at 2/3/1793.....I think....with him is his wife Jane who died 2/21/1878...80y-11m-22d.....also their dtr Lucinda wife of David Shaff died 4/11/19?9.
I checked on Rootsweb.net and only one person seems to connect him to their line... Paulescarraz@yahoo.com...he shows Isaac's parents as Henry Runyan bn 1775 and "first wife" Mary Bush. Second wife as Abigail Lynch with which he had 9-10 children.
One other stone read Mandy Jane Runyan died 8/9/1862. There is a historical society in Sharonville where I will check next....
Any help on this family and where they fit in?
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Post by susanrunyan on Aug 19, 2005 21:30:23 GMT -5
I visited the Runyan Cemetery and I also went to the Sharonville History Society where they had a large file on Henry Runyon. I found I have been incorrect on many names and dates. They had a plat of the cemetery with known names of about the 20 people buried there.
This is one of their handouts. "Unfortunately commercial development of Section 19 in Sycamore Township of Hamilton County, Oh found this old burial ground to be in the way of progress. A few gravestones remain on the east side of US 42 and three fourths of a mile north of east Kemper Road or south of the Interstate 275 and US 42 interchange. The 1940 plat is from the county courthouse which states that the cemetery was established 2/16/1878 for one fifth of an acre of land. It evidently was a burial ground long before a deed was recorded. The cemetery today is beside a Shell Gasoline Station. The remaining gravestones were recoded in November 1980 by Mr. and Mrs. Brandon Cordes. No other records are known to exist for this cemetery."
The headstones I was interested in were:
Isaac Runyan bn 01/04/1793 - d 03/03/1882
Sarah Jane Nixon bn 02/28/1797 - d 02/21/1878
and some of their children
Copier states Isaac was s/o Henry Runyan
I have also come across some other things:
1782 and 1785 records show John Runyon, bn 1723, living with sons, John, Henry and William, and their families in Harrison County, WVa.
I believe this is the Henry bn 1749 who settled in SW Ohio in 1792.
I believe his brother William bn 1751 settled in Warren County, Oh. "In 1805 Wm Runyan bn 1751, son Henry Runyan bn 1775, son Isaac Runyan bn 1773, John Layman, James Hill, John Goodpasture, Solomon Goodpasture, David Randall and their families settled in Harlan Township, Warren County, Ohio. Several of his small and grown children came with him to Ohio. Henry and Isaac married in Virginia.
Little knowledge of his life before he came to Oh can be ascertained, the family records and everything he had were destroyed by Indians when they burned his dwelling in Va."
From Warren County History, Harland Township, as reproduced in FTM CD 450, County and Family Histories: OH 1780-1970 Disk 6 ...page 681 (edited).
Augusta Co., VA: WB4 Page 204.--15th March, 1774. Conrad Kustard's settlement of estate. Contra--Paid to, viz: Thomas Baggs, James Marshal, Morris Custard, John Frank's bond, HENRY RUNYAN, John Steel, Michael Humble. Paul Custard, administrator.
Tax records in Bourbon Co., KY 1791, is a Conrad Custard (variant sp) and 1792 a Conrad Custard and a HENRY RUNYAN, along with some Steeles, not any named John. In Bourbon Co. 1793, a Conrad Custard, a HENRY RUNYAN, and a John Steele are listed.
Between 1769 and 1792, early Kentucky settlers would petition for different civic projects. Records show that 800 persons, including Henry Runyon, signed Petition No. 60. The petition asked the state Supreme Court not to hold trials in only one place, but to also meet “at Lexington in the County of Fayette, and other at Baird’s Town in the County of Nelson.”
Henry Runyan purchased property in 1791, on section nineteen, Sycamore township, about a mile and a half north of Sharonville, and near the present county line. This was the outpost in that direction called Runyan's Station. (per History of Hamilton County published 1881)
Again mentioned was...~ Henry RUNYAN's, about a mile and a half north of Reading. Mr. Olden, historian, says: "Near the spring, east of the Dayton turnpike, stood the old station-house."
Also...Mr. RUNYAN was a Virginian, but emigrated from Kentucky, where he had lived since 1784, and had there been married to Mrs. Mary BUSH, of Bourbon County, Ky. - this info taken from son Isaac Runyan bn 2/3/1793 and still living in 1881 by Mr. Olden.
So, I may have surmised some things, and may just be incorrect. If anyone has different info please let me know.
There is lots more about the Runyan's settling this area from the Society of Historic Sharonville and they are very helpful.
Conover started this topic, but I havent seen him back!
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Post by susanrunyan on Aug 20, 2005 8:29:11 GMT -5
I would like to correct Isaac's date of birth. It is usually published incorrectly because there is no birthdate on his headstone. It states he died 03/03/1882 and lived 89y/1m/29d. I have calculated that to be 01/04/1793.
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Post by Ira A. Runyan on Aug 20, 2005 9:25:38 GMT -5
Susan, from the records you have seen, was the "Runyon Station" located at or near the Runyan Cemetery?  |
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Post by susanrunyan on Sept 28, 2005 11:09:41 GMT -5
I spoke with Maria Eckhoff, Curator, The Society of Historic Sharonville. She says all that is known is that probably the southern portion of the property is where the cemetery is located which is 1 and 1/2 miles from the center of Sharonville. The property ran north to where Hauck Road now is and where the old Runyan School is located. It was purchased by Henry Runyan from John Cleves Simms through the Miami Purchase.
Rt 42 is the old Dayton Turnpike which ran through the center of the property. Where the shopping center is now located, which is north of I275, was the highest land area and the cemetery was located on the back side of the farm. It sounds to me like maybe Runyan Station was a place not a building.
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